Discussion around Tray usage

[kalain]

Hi,

 

Tray has been improved a lot since 1163 but not yet enough to use it as a tool.

 

let's start discussion here.

 

1/ Still not possible to resize easily thumbnail.

Slider size is still hiden on the right size of the window.

Slider is visible when Tray hight is enough.

 

2/When an or several items are selected in tray, it's not possible to use right panel in order to annotate selection (Tray)!!!

The only way to do this is

- to create a collection,

- select and display this collection

- and then annotate these items from main display window.

- then display again your thumbnail window to keep working.

 

Not so easy to work actually with Tray window.

 

what would be nice is :

- when a thumbnail is selected in Tray window, display it's properties in right panel and be able to use it.

- when a thumbnail is displayed in full screen, to be able to use right panel to annotate this item.

- when a thumbnail is selected, to be able to display and focus on original thumbnail from main window. (Not so easy to find 'original' thumbnail from 5000 items, even if thumbnail is green)

 

Regards

[Murat]

Thank you Alain for the suggestion. I've registered it.

 

Regarding your first point: you can use the Ctrl + Mouse Wheel in order to change the thumbnail size.

[kalain]

Regarding your first point: you can use the Ctrl + Mouse Wheel in order to change the thumbnail size.

 

Ok, but unfortunately I do not have a mouse !!

I use a laptop (17") and my desk is too small (or too messy) to fit a mouse on it... ;-)

[kalain]

2/When an or several items are selected in tray, it's not possible to use right panel in order to annotate selection (Tray)!!!

 

On thumbnail Tray, you can select all of them and with right clic can use some features like : Rating star, Notation of Flag.

 

looking forward to use also right panel and also Keywords, ... and all others features. :smile:

[Uwe]

- when a thumbnail is selected, to be able to display and focus on original thumbnail from main window. (Not so easy to find 'original' thumbnail from 5000 items, even if thumbnail is green)

 

Hello,

any news regarding this feature?

Regards, Uwe

[WilfriedB]

Ok, but unfortunately I do not have a mouse !!

Kalain, I use a Lenovo ThinkPad with Trackpoint instead of a mouse. Resizing works for me with Ctrl+Middle Button and moving the TrackPoint. If you use a toucpad instead of the Lenovo/IBM Trackpoint and your keyboard has a middle button, the same might work too.

[WilfriedB]

2/When an or several items are selected in tray, it's not possible to use right panel in order to annotate selection (Tray)!!!

I am currently trying to understand whether and how the tray (as well as groups and linking) can help me. Not being able to bring a selected item in focus easily seems to be a major obstacle.

Even when not using the tray, there cases where one or more items are selected, you see their tags in the properties, but need to scroll many pages in the thumbnail window to find the picture.

It would great if there were menu options (or better shortcuts) such as:

- Show first selected item in Thumbnail window

- Show first selected item in tray (and open tray window, if not yet open)

- Show next selected item in Thumbnail window

- Show next selected item in tray (and open tray window, if not yet open)

- Show previous selected item in Thumbnail window

- Show previous selected item in tray (and open tray window, if not yet open)

 

In the context menu of items in tray:

- Show in Thumbnail window

 

In the context menu of items in Thumbnail window:

- Show in tray (and open tray window, if not yet open)

[WilfriedB]

x

[Paul Barrett]

The tray is a mystery to me. Can I ask a really dumb question? What's it for? :) Am I missing something really useful?

 

- Paul

[WilfriedB]

The tray is a mystery to me. Can I ask a really dumb question? What's it for? :) Am I missing something really useful?

As I said above, I am trying to understand how the tray, grouping and linking can help me organizing images. Comparing with iView (and its follow on products) these are all new concepts to me.

 

My view of the Tray:

If you need to select a small number of images out of a much bigger set, specially when the "bigger set" cannot be represented by a single search and you need to run multiple searches, the tray can be very helpful. While you browse hundreds or more pictures, it is only a single keystroke "insert" to select a candidate and you continue to search for the next one. At this point you may close the tray again, until you found enough candidates.

When you selected the required number of images, you open the tray again, compare pictures, add or remove and eventually continue to work on the final selection. Although you can perform most of the actions similar to the way you do it in the Thumbnail window, it might be more convenient to move all tray into a collection at the point when you are happy with your selection. The big advantage over a collection - in my opinion - is the single key insert to add an item to the tray.

Removing an item from the tray with delete key seems a bit risky to me. If the focus is on an element in the thumbnail window accidentally, you risk to delete the wrong item from the catalog or even from disk, if you don't pay attention.

[Paul Barrett]

Hi Wilfried

OK, so that does sound interesting, I will take a look at te functionality. We can have a mutual voyage of discovery !

 

- Paul

[WilfriedB]

Above I said "you can perform most of the actions similar to the way you do it in the Thumbnail window", I meant some limitations you run into when you look into more detail. For example, when I had the thumbnail window, the properties panel and the tray open, I noticed theses flaws:

1. Select an item in the tray, so the properties panel shows the meta data of that item
2. Click an item in the thumbnail window and the properties panel changes correctly to show the metadata of the thumbnail
3. Click again the item in the tray and the properties will not change!
4. Click another item in the tray and the properties change accordingly.

I did not do intensive testing, but I believe, by updating the wrong picture in step 3. you might create quite a mess. It works the same when you start those 4 steps in the thumbnail window.

 

Another example:

1. Select an image in the tray
2. Change some properties
3. Select "Save and go to the next item"
4. Click "Save and go to the next item", so the properties are saved correctly, the next item in tray is hight lighted (so far so good), but the properties show still those of the first image. When you change those (believing you change the second) in reality the first item is changed.

[Paul Barrett]

Hi Wilfried

 

That's interesting.

 

I had a similar issue with the properties panel not updating correctly a few weeks ago and I reported it to Support. It wasn't in 'Tray' mode obviously. Daria registered it as an issue as I recall.

 

Daria monitors this forum so let's see what she has to say.

 

 

- Paul

[WilfriedB]

There is another point I forgot:

If thumbnail window and tray are open, each panel indicates the selected item with a white frame, but I don't see any indication which one is linked to the properties panel and the tags window.

Probably best choice is to keep only tray or only thumbnail window open, but not both.

 

Another example to use the tray, I practice since very recently time now:

I am browsing last year's pictures to select some, I want to post one by one in Facebook groups. So I go through the pictures day by day, by location, or by keywords... etc adding to the tray whenever I find one. Some days I find more other times less. When I post pictures, I don't want too show many at once, but a couple every day. Using the tray, the process to select new candidates is completely independent from the posting, whenever I time to search for more and add the tray, after posting, I remove it from the tray.

[Paul Barrett]

I have just started playing with the Tray function and I can see a use for it, for me.

 

I am currently scanning batches of old negatives and prints from albums and importing them into the catalog.

 

The prints and the negs are clearly organised very differently from each other and there is no practical way of correlating them before import. So what I end up with is completely disjointed images.

 

To bring order to this chaos I need to review the scanned images and group related items together. This will enable me to tag them all properly and consistently, and reset the creation datetime to the best approximate date to their original shot date, then move them into a date stamped folder.

 

I looked at linking and grouping. Neither seemed appropriate (and, as an aside, with the files located on a NAS, grouping took so long I abandoned it).

 

But the tray has definite possibilities. I can move through batches of scanned materials, identify related images and drop them into the tray. When I am done with a related set I add them to a collection. I haven't used collections before because I could not see a use case. But my collections will be temporary 'holding areas' of images that need to be tagged, dated and moved, so that I can sit down with my wife and figure out the missing data

 

So the workflows go:

 

1. Scan
2. Import
3. Review batch to ID related items
4. Drop Into Tray
5. Repeat from 3 till all have been ID'd
6. Add into Collection
7. Clear Tray
8. Repeat from Review 3 till all have been processed.

 

And then separately:

 

1. Identify metadata for each collection
2. Tag/Date/Move
3. Delete Collection

At least that's the plan. Let's see how it goes.

 

- Paul

[WilfriedB]

So the workflows go:

1. Scan
2. Import
3. Review batch to ID related items
4. Drop Into Tray
5. Repeat from 3 till all have been ID'd
6. Add into Collection
7. Clear Tray
8. Repeat from Review 3 till all have been processed.

And then separately:

1. Identify metadata for each collection
2. Tag/Date/Move
3. Delete Collection

Makes sense to me, Paul.

 

I understand your point with he date (even though I postponed scanning slides and negatives for years now).

 

So far, I didn't even try to change the Creation Datetime through Daminion, because I believe to have a much better solution. I frequently change the time stamp immediately after "ingesting", i.e. after copying from the camera to disk, but before importing into Daminion. Even though my workflow applies to digital, I am confident, it works well for scanned images too:

1. Ingest (= copy from SD card to disk) with ImageIngester - a whole story in itself, but for the sake of this discussion replace it by "Scan"
2. GeoSetter, a piece freeware which also does a ton of things for me, most important for now: change the dates (plural!), set the geographical coordinates either manual (for scans) or based on a GPS log, automatically(!) conclude the "place" ([country] [state] [city] [location]) from the numerical longitude/latitude value - that could also be useful for you scans.
3. Run Picasa for face recognition. I know, not supported anymore, but it still works well for me. Picasa is also able to change the taken date, but I use it rarely for that, because in most cases, I am happy with GeoSetter
4. Import into Daminion

Let me know, if you have any questions. There are many hidden details.

[Uwe]

Hello,

an option I asked for some time ago is a "Sort function" for the Tray.

Today I insert all items from the Thumbnail Window to the Tray which are "candidates" for a chapter in a Photobook, a presentation etc. The sources can be different folders etc.

So there is not guarantee that they are inserted by their Creation DateTime. And because I do this "preselection" at least two times, the items in the Tray are sorted as they are inserted and not by any sort option (at least Creation DateTime) available for the Thumbnail Window.

Regards, Uwe

[Paul Barrett]

Hello,

an option I asked for some time ago is a "Sort function" for the Tray.

 

Regards, Uwe

 

Ooh, I like that. :)

 

- Paul

 

 

[Uwe]

Removing an item from the tray with delete key seems a bit risky to me. If the focus is on an element in the thumbnail window accidentally, you risk to delete the wrong item from the catalog or even from disk, if you don't pay attention.

Hello Wilfried,

you are right, one has to be careful. The difference is: if you remove an item from the Tray by the "Delete" key - no popup appears compared to do the same with an item in the Thumbnail Window.

Regards, Uwe

[Uwe]

I looked at linking and grouping. Neither seemed appropriate (and, as an aside, with the files located on a NAS, grouping took so long I abandoned it).

Hello,

I use the "Linking" to link the source item to all other items based on this source.

E.g. there is the original FILE.RAW. Based on this FILE.RAW I create a FILE.TIF for a photobook designed by Adobe Indesign. Another FILE.JPG is used for a slide show.

Or there is a file FILE.GPX. I use this FILE.GPX to open this track by GPXViewer and to create a map file FILE.TIF. Now I link the FILE.GPX and the FILE.TIF to keep them together.

I use the "Group function" for panorama photos. The final panorama is on top of the group. I don't have any problems with grouping files on a NAS.

Regards, Uwe

[WilfriedB]

an option I asked for some time ago is a "Sort function" for the Tray.

Good point, I agree

[WilfriedB]

no popup appears compared to do the same with an item in the Thumbnail Window.

True, the popup protects from accidentally deleting, but I still see the danger users might wonder (or not) "Why do I get this pop-up now?" and quickly click Yes without thinking and the item is gone. No matter if it went to the trash bin or just removed from the catalog, even though in both cases you can recover it easily, the question is, wether and when you realize it is missing!

[WilfriedB]

Or there is a file FILE.GPX. I use this FILE.GPX to open this track by GPXViewer

Sorry for getting a bit off topic now, but I need to comment on it, since I did not find any other thread mentioning GPXViewer.

 

Why did I never think of importing .GPX files into Daminion? I just verified, it works when I modify the Import Filters and add GPX under "Also import files with following extensions". To show (and modify!) GPX tracks I use RouteConverter for quite a while and even though I store the .gpx in the same folder as the images of the same day, it was a little cumbersome to find the corresponding track file for a certain image and open it. After imported one GPX file into Daminion and double clicked it, I could assign RouteConverter as the standard program and see the track immediately?

 

One nasty point though: When I searched all items of that specific date via the Creation Datetime tag, I expected to find the .GPX among the images of the same day. Wrong! Why? I found, the Creation Datetime tag of the .GPX file showed October, 29 2016, while track was recorded on August, 7 2016. Again, why?? A little more research discovered, the file was indeed originally created on August, 7, in October I started using a new PC all files on its HDD. Therefore Windows explorer showed a later creation date (October, 29) than the change date (August, 7).

 

@Uwe, unlike RouteConverter GPXViewer is not a PC application, but needs to be started via its URL in a Web browser and and then select the GPX file. Did you find a way to open GPXViewer and pass the path for the .GPX to it, simply by clicking the .GPX file in Daminion or do you still need to search in your folders after opening GPXViewer? Anyway thanks a lot for this tip!

[Paul Barrett]

 

One nasty point though: When I searched all items of that specific date via the Creation Datetime tag, I expected to find the .GPX among the images of the same day. Wrong! Why? I found, the Creation Datetime tag of the .GPX file showed October, 29 2016, while track was recorded on August, 7 2016. Again, why?? A little more research discovered, the file was indeed originally created on August, 7, in October I started using a new PC all files on its HDD. Therefore Windows explorer showed a later creation date (October, 29) than the change date (August, 7).

 

 

A very good example of why the Creation datetime has to be editable in Daminion.

 

If you have lots to process you can use ExifTool to copy the EXIF:DateTimeOriginal tag into FILE:FileCreationDateTime

 

- Paul

 

 

[WilfriedB]

If you have lots to process you can use ExifTool to copy the EXIF:DateTimeOriginal tag into FILE:FileCreationDateTime

I agree, a good example too.

However, in this case I doubt ExifTool is able to handle .GPX files. For images have a look at my previous post. Besides other things, I use GEOSetter to change the date/time stamp. Under the covers it also uses ExifTool but has a convenient GUI and can handle more complexe changes, such us "increase/decrease the time for all selected images by xx seconds/min/hours/days"