679 - missing "Artist" in Sort

[Uwe]

Hello,

 

there isn't the Artist tag in the "Sort by" criteria.

 

Regards, Uwe

[Murat]

We removed all tags from the sorting list that allows multiple assignments to the same item (like Keywords, Categories, Artist, etc...)

[Uwe]

Hello Murat,

 

sorry but I don't undestand it. From my point of view the Artist is just a column (format text) like Title. I can customize the Artist in the List View Window but I can't sort this table by Artist. Where is the problem? The Artist is one of the most important information of the ID3 tags of the music items.

 

Regards, Uwe

[Murat]

You can assign multiple artists to the same audio file, right? But only one Title.

 

For example if 10 artists were assigned to an MP3 file - it's unclear which one artist name should we use for sorting?

[Uwe]

Hi Murat,

 

there is only one ID3 tag named Artist (TPE1), belongs to the Audio Tags and the content of this field should be moved in the column Artist of the List View. This is already done by Daminion. I use the Advanced Search to filter by Mediaformat items. That means Daminion has already mapped and moved the content from the ID3 tag to the List View column.

http://age.hobba.nl/audio/tag_frame_reference.html

Why can I not sort the table by this column?

I can sort the table by Title and Titel is used in the Audio and Description chapter and is in the "Sort by" tags.

 

Regards, Uwe

[Murat]

http://age.hobba.nl/audio/tag_frame_reference.html

Why can I not sort the table by this column?

I can sort the table by Title and Titel is used in the Audio and Description chapter and is in the "Sort by" tags.

 

Each file might have only one Title and thus we can sort by this field.

 

In Daminion multiple Artists might be assigned to the same file so we excluded it from the sorting list:

 

Artists tag is used to represent each of the artists appearing in the media. It can be simple in the form of "The Beatles", or more complicated in the

form of "John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison, Pete Best", depending on the preferences of the listener and the degree to which they organize their media

collection.

[Uwe]

Hello Murat,

 

I can't follow your arguments. "Artist" has the format CHARACTER and one can sort character columns. In your example, e.g. there are "The Beatles" in the Artist of item1 (ID3 tag TPE1 of file1) and "John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison, Pete Best" are the Artists of item2 (ID3 tag TPE1 of file2). Assume that both notations are in one catalog. When I sort the Artist column aphabetically ascending the item2 comes first followed by item1 because "J" comes first and then "T".

 

Regards, Uwe

[Murat]

I can't follow your arguments. "Artist" has the format CHARACTER and one can sort character columns. In your example, e.g. there are "The Beatles" in the Artist of item1 (ID3 tag TPE1 of file1) and "John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison, Pete Best" are the Artists of item2 (ID3 tag TPE1 of file2). Assume that both notations are in one catalog. When I sort the Artist column aphabetically ascending the item2 comes first followed by item1 because "J" comes first and then "T".

 

The representation of a tag in the metadata and in the database are differ: if we'll store all artists as a single text line in the database it will not be a problem to include it into sorting list.

 

But Artists tag's internal representation is an Array, and it doesn't store as text. Each artist entry is stored separately. And the comparison algorithm uses database entries.

 

What if we compare two files with artists:

1st file: Michael Oldfield

2nd file: John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison, Pete Best

 

Which file should be first if we selected sorting by ascending?

 

The artists in database can be stored in different order than inside the file, lets say as: Paul McCartney, George Harrison, John Lennon, Pete Best.

 

Plus we sort them on the right panel, so you can see them in properties panel in the following order:

• George Harrison
  
• John Lennon
  
• Paul McCartney
  
• Pete Best
  

 

While in MP3 file it was written as "John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison, Pete Best"

 

This problem can not be fixed quickly so may be we can return to this issue later, after implementing some core features.

[Uwe]

What if we compare two files with artists:

1st file: Michael Oldfield

2nd file: John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison, Pete Best

 

Which file should be first if we selected sorting by ascending?

In this case the file2 comes first because of "J" and then file1. From my point of view in file1 there is only one artist: "Michael Oldfield" and not two artists like " Miachael" and "Oldfield". The same with file2 independent on the comma delimiter. There is only one Artist and not four. And it should be stored in the database as one field and one Artist in this case. What happens if I write: "John Lennon Paul McCartney George Harrison Pete Best" without a comma delimiter? Is this one Artist? I talk about the artists of ID3 tags and not about artists of photos or maybe a document. There are XMP tags, lists etc. that doesn't exist for ID3 descriptions as far as I know.

 

The artists in database can be stored in different order than inside the file, lets say as: Paul McCartney, George Harrison, John Lennon, Pete Best.

 

Plus we sort them on the right panel, so you can see them in properties panel in the following order:

• George Harrison
  
• John Lennon
  
• Paul McCartney
  
• Pete Best
  

 

While in MP3 file it was written as "John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison, Pete Best"

 

Yes this is true for XMP notations and such sources because they are inserted as single tags or splitted by delimiter.

 

This problem can not be fixed quickly so may be we can return to this issue later, after implementing some core features.

 

I guess this issue is related to the difference between the User Interface(UI)and the way you store it in the database. But my interface is the UI and the column Artist is useless (80%) for me in the current implementation of the List View.

Maybe you should define a new field for the Audio ID3 tag Artist to handle it different from the current one.

I don't see any chance to sort the music catalog by artists or do you have a hint?

 

Regards, Uwe

[Murat]

Unfortunately we are limited with the internal representation of this field in our database (as multiple values). Sorry, but we can't change the business logic at the moment.

 

But a solution might be available in the future Daminion versions.

 

If we'll add the second field it will be duplicate of the existing Artist field.

 

Need some time to came a decision.

[Uwe]

Hello Murat,

 

from my point of view you should think about an adjustment. I have been focused all the time on the List View Window and didn't take care for the Artist Tag (Audio chapter) in the Properties Window.

Now it's clear for me. You manage the Artist of an Audio file in the same way e.g. you manage the keywords.

But this is wrong and one gets wrong results.

The artist of an ID3 tag is neigher a list element nor part of a hierarchical structure. It's a flat CHAR field.

In the screen shot you see what happens:

 

There was the artist "The Beatles" in the MP3 item tagged by the program Tag&Rename (www.softpointer.com). I've added in Daminion two new tags: Test_Artist_01 and Test_Artist_02 and wrote the tags into the file. The result is: because of the limitation of the length I've lost parts of the entered tags in the ID3 Artist field.

If I would rename the file on the disc (rule: artist - title) I get this result: The BeatlesTest_Artist_Tag_01 - devil in her heart.mp3.

My recommendation is: The Artist Tag should be a tag like Copyright or any other tag without multiple values.

Maybe I don't see all application areas of this tag and would like to ask you and the user of the forum.

 

Regards, Uwe

[Mammut]

Hi Uwe,

 

I don't use Daminion now for music files, because I think the program needs more development in that area, but...

 

I agree that the "artist" in the id3 tag is a string, and it should be handled as a string. And the order of "x & y" or "x feat y" duos, trios, etc. is important in most of cases, because it's a "name", so we can't rely on separate tags.

 

But, in the other hand, I'm glad that we can assign more artists in Daminion, because there are concerts and jams where there are a lot of artists at once (and it's a real enumeration, not a "name", the "name" is often "various artists" in such cases), so it can be very useful if we'd like to filter one or two artists. I don't want to lost this feature, I'm missing it from winamp.

 

Maybe we need two separate tags for this, the id3 artist name tag and a Daminion tag, the first could be saved into the file, the second maybe in a sidecar file, I don't know.

 

Regards,

mammut

[Uwe]

HI mammut,

 

thank you for your comment. Yes that's really good to have more than one artist. And yes, I agree to solve this problem Daminion should have one ID3 Artist Tag to be compatible with other programs (ID3 Definition, Winamp, VLC...) and a second Artist Tag owned by Daminion, existing in the catalog only and doesn't have an impact on the ID3 tag. I don't know if there exist sidecar files for FLAC, WAV, MP3... formats. I've never seen it but Daminion can write such a XMP file additionally and can store there all tags that are not defined by the ID3 standard.

 

Regards, Uwe

[Mammut]

If there were read only files, IDImager created sidecar XMLs for every files, for jpgs, movies, everything. I used my jpg files with sidecar XMLs (that way I'd have a working checksum system and the repairing would be more easy, and with a bigger collection the checksums or other similar techniques would be very important, but the constant file changes (because of the tag writings) are making that nearly impossible (okay, raid, but that's not the same)), but unfortunatelly idimager was too buggy in other areas, and other programs didn't support this sidecar solution.

 

So I'd be happy if Daminion would use sidecar files for audio files, and for other files as well. :)

 

mammut

[Uwe]

Hello,

 

I'd like to come back to this issue because from my point of view it should be implemented in the first offical release. That's my opinion/wish.

 

Due to the fact that Daminion won't change the handling of the ID3-MP3/Vorbis-FLAC tag Artist (I see the advantages of multiple artists in Daminion), I suggest:

 

1. to have a mapping support from the Audio field "Artist" in the List View Window (or the internal UI field - there it's a flat structure) to a custom tag, e.g. "cust_Artist" (format text).

 

2. Daminion also supports the WAV format but there is no common used tag definition for WAV. I suggest as a second step to support the mapping by rules, e.g.

- your rules for audio file name on disc are: "%n %a - %t.ext" (Number Artist - Title.ext)

-> the mapping (short description) can be: %a -> cust_Artist

 

3. No Problem when you skip Point 1 and develop Point 2 ;-)

 

The sort by custom tags is already there in Daminion.

 

Your opinion?

Do I have a chance to get it?

 

Regards, Uwe

[Uwe]

Hello,

 

the information in the topic: https://daminion.net/user-forum/index.php?/topic/1891-album-tag-metadata/

 

"Select your stock audio after importing, open the Assign Tag Preset panel, put the %album token into the DBAlbum tag and press the Assign to Selected Items button:"

 

solved the problem to sort by Artist Tag when I use the "Assign Tag Preset". I used "custom-Artist" = "%artist" in the Tag Preset. The tag "custom-Artist" can be used to sort.

 

The remaining problem is the pop-up window that appears for each assigned item. Please, don't produce modale windows. It doesn't make sense in this case.

 

Is there any chance to get the assignment e.g.: "custom-Artist" = %artist as a rule connected to the custom tag? This will fill the custom tag automatically as described in point 2.

 

Regards, Uwe