664 - move from shared to local catalog

[Uwe]

Hello,

 

inspired by the question from Menace (drag and drop to an other folder - it doesn't work) I wanted to find a detour and I made the following steps:

 

1. open the shared and the local catalog ( the local is new and empty)

2. select one TIF item in the shared catalog

3. move this item by drag and drop into the Thumbnail Window of the local catalog

4. A Popup appears to select a destination folder and I've selected the folder of the local catalog

5. move is in progress

6. the item appears now in the Thumbnail Window of the local catalog but its source folder (in the Properties Window) is still the folder of the shared catalog - why do I have to select a destination folder in step 4 when it's not copied to that folder?

7. select the shared catalog

8. in the shared catalog the number of files where the TIF item was located decreased (-1)

9. go back to the local catalog in the Thumbnail Window

10. since the item in the local catalog points to the source in the shared catalog I removed the item from local catalog but not to the recycle bin

11. the counter = 0 , the Thumbnail Window is empty

12. the preview of the item remains in the ~Thumbs folder of the local catalog - why? I made these steps 3 times and now there are 3 previews in the ~Thumbs (sub)folders!

13. Since the file is not deleted by the move process from its source I can go to the shared catalog and by Rescan Folder the item appears again in the shared catalog and the number of items increased (+1) -> from my point of view it was an inconsistent situation between the content of the folder and the shared catalog!? Or do I understand the "move" process in a wrong way? Either the item is deleted from its source folder and copied to a new source of the local catalog or is has to be in a kind of Version Control to equeue/lock it but this requieres a Server installation(?). I use the Daminion Server installation and shared catalog and I don't know if one can create more than one local catalog in the client only version of Daminion. I guess yes. There is no Version Control and lock function.

14. select the local catalog. In the folder section of the Catalog Window the folder of the just removed items is still there and by Rescan Folder (F6) I can get back the item again!?

10a. I continue now from step 9 - the moved item is in the local catalog. I move the item back from the local catalog to the shared catalog.

11a. I can't select a destination and therefore the item is imported to the upload folder defined in the server preferences but this is not the folder the item was located before and my preferred destination.

12a. the result is: the item is 2 times in the shared catalog and on the disk. One is in the upload folder and the other one is on it's original source folder because it was never deleted there and is back by Rescan Folder.

 

Regards, Uwe

[Murat]

4. A Popup appears to select a destination folder and I've selected the folder of the local catalog

5. move is in progress

6. the item appears now in the Thumbnail Window of the local catalog but its source folder (in the Properties Window) is still the folder of the shared catalog - why do I have to select a destination folder in step 4 when it's not copied to that folder?

13. Since the file is not deleted by the move process from its source I can go to the shared catalog and by Rescan Folder the item appears again in the shared catalog and the number of items increased (+1) -> from my point of view it was an inconsistent situation between the content of the folder and the shared catalog!?

 

 

Or do I understand the "move" process in a wrong way? Either the item is deleted from its source folder and copied to a new source of the local catalog or is has to be in a kind of Version Control to equeue/lock it but this requieres a Server installation(?). I use the Daminion Server installation and shared catalog and I don't know if one can create more than one local catalog in the client only version of Daminion. I guess yes. There is no Version Control and lock function.

 

 

Files from shared folders do not change their location after moving. But we always show this window because the selection might contains mix of the local (server based) and shared files.

 

 

12. the preview of the item remains in the ~Thumbs folder of the local catalog - why?

I made these steps 3 times and now there are 3 previews in the ~Thumbs (sub)folders!

 

This is in our future plans, I've added an extra vote to this issue.

 

 

 

 

14. select the local catalog. In the folder section of the Catalog Window the folder of the just removed items is still there and by Rescan Folder (F6) I can get back the item again!?

 

It's because you removed the file just from a catalog without its physical deletion (Step 10).

 

10a. I continue now from step 9 - the moved item is in the local catalog. I move the item back from the local catalog to the shared catalog.

11a. I can't select a destination and therefore the item is imported to the upload folder defined in the server preferences but this is not the folder the item was located before and my preferred destination.

12a. the result is: the item is 2 times in the shared catalog and on the disk. One is in the upload folder and the other one is on it's original source folder because it was never deleted there and is back by Rescan Folder.

 

Please tell me the full path to the imported file and whether it locates on a shared location?

[Uwe]

Files from shared folders do not change their location after moving. But we always show this window because the selection might contains mix of the local (server based) and shared files.

 

I'm not really happy with your answer because that is not a "move" (as it works in the Win7 with file explorer etc). It is a new reference to an other catalog and both catalogs have the control about this item?! What happens when (hopefully in the near future) I have more then one shared catalog, maybe separated by Mediaformat/history date or an other criteria. How can I transfer an item from one catalog to an other without export/import, working on OS level and rescan etc?

 

 

This is in our future plans, I've added an extra vote to this issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's because you removed the file just from a catalog without its physical deletion (Step 10).

 

Yes because its not a "move" its a new reference

 

 

Please tell me the full path to the imported file and whether it locates on a shared location?

 

in the server preferences the upload folder is defined: E:/daminion_upload_local -> this is a lokal device and folder

 

the upload folder when the files were imported was: \\servername\daminion_shared_catalog_network - this is a drive and a folder on the NAS

[Uwe]

Hi Murat,

 

sorry my answers are inserted in your post - hope you find it.

 

regards, Uwe

[Uwe]

Hi Murat,

 

I made the following test:

 

1. local catalog LC01 with item_yx

2. local catalog LC02 empty

3. move the item_xy from LC01 to LC02 -> LC01 is empty

4. item_xy is in the LC02 but only by reference because the physical place is in the folder of LC01

5. rescan of LC01 -> the item is back in LC01 again but only one time on disk (physical in relation to LC01 and by reference in LC02)

6. it is possible to check out/check out and open with... the item in both catalogs independent from each other!

 

I did it again with shared catalog and LC01 on PC1 and LC02 on PC2.

 

1. moved item_xy to LC01 and LC02 - both local catalog items have the reference to the physical location of the shared catalog

2. check out and open with Photoshop of item_xy on LC01 and parallel on LC02 - it is possible, no warnings from Daminion

3. made some changes with Photoshop on both PC

4. when I want to save the changes made by Photoshop I get a message from Photoshop that the saved version of item_xy was changed since it was opend or since the last save. Now it depends on who made the last save in Photoshop. This overwrites the changes made on the other PC. This is the new version of item_xy.

5. Check in - the last saved version is the current one. In the history of item_xy in LC01 there is the text entered during check in into LC01 but maybe the version was saved on PC2. In the history of item_xy in LC02 is the text entered during check in into LC02 but maybe the version was saved on PC1.

 

-> One option can be: there is a central shared catalog with all the items. If one wants to work with an item you have to move it into your local catalog. In this moment the item has to be "checked out" or a new status "in progress by..." in the shared catalog but not deleted from the shared catalog. The later check in deletes the item from the local catalog and writes the changes back to the shared catalog + history etc. Maybe this is a complex process to implement and to control.

-> If you work with the Daminion stand alone client and you have two local catalogs the item has to be deleted from one local catalog and its folder and to be inserted into the other local catalog and its folder - no reference. I didn't test it with the stand alone client solution.

 

-> My opinion: a "Move" has to make a physical transfer of an item to an other folder and to delete it from its old source location, in this case either to the folder of LC01 or to LC02. If not, it is not a "move" it is a reference with all the problems described above.

But if this is what Daminion wants to do maybe you should rename the "Move" to "Add reference to".

 

So, the general question for me is: How should the "Move" work?

 

Regards, Uwe

[Murat]

'Move to€€' means moving an item from one catalog to another one without moving the physical file if it accessible from the destination catalog. Or with copying file to a new location if the source file location is unavailble from the destination catalog. There are possible some collisions while working with the same images from two local catalogs.

 

And i don't recomend to import the same file into two diffrrent local catalogs.

[Mammut]

And i don't recomend to import the same file into two diffrrent local catalogs.

 

Sometimes I need it because I have too many files for Daminion to handle, and I have more projects where I need the same files.

 

I'm using one catalog at a time, and I'm using the Read Tags from file if I know that I modified keywords in another Catalog. Of course if I forget than there comes the trouble, I know that. (Partly that's why I need more link (or sync) between the Catalogs (and between their Tags), this would be much easier.)

 

But there can be any other error, some internal thing which I can't see first?

 

Thanks,

mammut

 

edit: Of course when Daminion will handle all of my files in one Catalog without any problem (slowing down, time-out errors, etc.), I will use only one Catalog, it would be the best. :)

Edited November 8, 2012 by Mammut

[Murat]

Sometimes I need it because I have too many files for Daminion to handle, and I have more projects where I need the same files.

 

I'm using one catalog at a time, and I'm using the Read Tags from file if I know that I modified keywords in another Catalog. Of course if I forget than there comes the trouble, I know that. (Partly that's why I need more link (or sync) between the Catalogs (and between their Tags), this would be much easier.)

 

But there can be any other error, some internal thing which I can't see first?

 

edit: Of course when Daminion will handle all of my files in one Catalog without any problem (slowing down, time-out errors, etc.), I will use only one Catalog, it would be the best. :)

 

Keeping the same file in different catalogs is a potential source for various collisions. Because different catalogs don't know about each others, and what if you'll assign different tags to the same file in different catalogs?

 

Tags from one catalog might overwritten by tags from another catalog during the synchronization.

 

So my suggestion is to split your image archive into several parts, and store each part in different folders along with separate catalogs. Or keep them in the same catalog.

The next stage of performance optimizations coming soon...

 

And don't forget about backups!

[Mammut]

Keeping the same file in different catalogs is a potential source for various collisions. Because different catalogs don't know about each others, and what if you'll assign different tags to the same file in different catalogs?

 

Tags from one catalog might overwritten by tags from another catalog during the synchronization.

 

So my suggestion is to split your image archive into several parts, and store each part in different folders along with separate catalogs. Or keep them in the same catalog.

The next stage of performance optimizations coming soon...

 

And don't forget about backups!

 

Of course, I know that, that's why I wrote that I'm using only one Catalog at once, and I read the tags from the files when I'm opening an other Catalog. And I always export the tags and import the tags, I'm always "syncing" everything manually when I open a new Catalog. The auto sync is turned off in Daminion.

 

There are too many files. I have about 800 000 files now and it's growing (and I archived a lot in the past few weeks), so I can't keep them in 1 Catalog because Daminion can't work normally with that many files now. I had to split my files into projects/themes as separate Catalogs with 60-80 000 files, and I had to split some themes into more Catalogs, because there were too many files in them (>200 000). And especially in the latter case I need to share files between Catalogs sometimes.

 

Because I'm always exporting everything, I have a lot of backups. :)

 

I'm looking forward to the next stage of performance optimizations. ;)

 

Thanks and Regards,

mammut

[Uwe]

Hello,

 

one question remains after this discussion for me: For what is "Move" good and to use without these potential problems I had when I made the tests?

I don't talk about a single user maybe with server and more then one catalog.

I would like to know how "Move" can be used in a small group of user working on the same server.

1. all users work with the same catalog and use check out/check in of this catalog - no problem.

2. there are dedicated basic catalogs and for a (remote) project work the items have to be copied to the local catalog of the user - not with "Move"

3...

 

Regards, Uwe

[Murat]

2. there are dedicated basic catalogs and for a (remote) project work the items have to be copied to the local catalog of the user - not with "Move"

 

I don't understand this. Could you please explain?

[Uwe]

Hello Murat,

 

maybe there is a catalog with flowers an other with buildings and a third one with people.

For a project you need some items from each catalog.

You have to import the same items in your project catalog. This can be a local catalog on your laptop to work with it when you are not connected to the shared catalog on the server. But this can't happen with move you have to import the items once more or to copy them on level of OS and rescan the project folder of the project catalog.

 

Regards, Uwe