franky68 Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 Hello Murat, congrats on the new build. Some of the new features really sound promising! A few observations I made with the current version: - Color tags: They now seem to work perfectly and I can reset previously set tags. Yay! :) EDIT: It seems that importing color tags does not work anymore? I imported a few images that have colortags set from ViewNX and they aint visible in Daminion. - Quickfilter now seems to show correct results too! :) - I still get strange lensinfo for my Nikon NEFs as already reported (yes, I know...) - I created a new catalog and imported a couple of images. They all are "checked in" - when I open the context menu (rightclick on a thumbnail) the only option is to "check out". - Is the "checked in"/"checked out" category gone? I can not seem to find it!? - The key modifiers for logical operators are really strange... "CTRL" combines two categories (either AND or OR) and "ALT" gives a NOT. Now if I press CTRL+ALT in the same category I get an "OR NOT" which is not overly effective ;) I already suggested before but why not be conistent and use SHIFT=OR, CTRL=AND, ALT=AND NOT? This way the behavior could be the same in every situation? - I had Daminion crash with two catalogs open. After restart only one of them was opened. - Movies recorded with my D300s are not recognized by camera model (ViewNX does) - Real time statistics: a double YAY! :) - Color management looks good to me (tho I am only using sRGB anyway) Kind regards Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 EDIT: It seems that importing color tags does not work anymore? I imported a few images that have colortags set from ViewNX and they aint visible in Daminion. It should work - I've check it with the sample NEF files you sent me early. Could you please send me a file with the "problematic" color tag. - I created a new catalog and imported a couple of images. They all are "checked in" - when I open the context menu (rightclick on a thumbnail) the only option is to "check out". Could you please send me a screenshot? Does the files you imported are located on a local disk? - Is the "checked in"/"checked out" category gone? I can not seem to find it!? No, it's just was hidden from the tree to simplify the first UI look. You can add it from Catalog Tree options - The key modifiers for logical operators are really strange... "CTRL" combines two categories (either AND or OR) and "ALT" gives a NOT. Now if I press CTRL+ALT in the same category I get an "OR NOT" which is not overly effective ;) I already suggested before but why not be conistent and use SHIFT=OR, CTRL=AND, ALT=AND NOT? This way the behavior could be the same in every situation? AND/OR operations are applied to the hole tag selection: we can select: Tag1 AND Tag2 AND Tag3 or: Tag1 OR Tag2 OR Tag3 but we can't select: Tag1 AND Tag2 OR Tag3 So after pressing Shift or Alt all the existing boolean operations (AND or OR) should be changed (even if a user pressed the key accidentally). So we decided to keep Ctrl key as a way to select multiple tags, no matter what operation should be used between the tags. - I had Daminion crash with two catalogs open. After restart only one of them was opened. It probably might be due to upgrading the catalogs to a new version. It will be very helpful if you can sent me old catalog files that invoke the error (if you still have them) - Movies recorded with my D300s are not recognized by camera model (ViewNX does) Could please send me one of these movie files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky68 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 It probably might be due to upgrading the catalogs to a new version. It will be very helpful if you can sent me old catalog files that invoke the error (if you still have them) No, I can reproduce it without a crash. When I have two catalogs open and close Daminion after the next start only one of the catalogs is opened. It seems that always only the catalog that was opened last is restored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky68 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 AND/OR operations are applied to the hole tag selection: Oh, thats a pity... I can imagion running into problems when I get more complex queries when Daminion is ready to be used. Imagion queries about persons that can easily require such combinations. Is there any reason not to allow this - other than not having to bother with parathensis? Anyway I feel that the default combination for NOT should be AND NOT instead of OR NOT. ...and for the time until you collected enough complaints about the queries and will allow more complex combinations a text editor for SQL like queries would be a nice interim solution? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky68 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Could please send me one of these movie files. I just sent it to the support address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 When I have two catalogs open and close Daminion after the next start only one of the catalogs is opened. It seems that always only the catalog that was opened last is restored. Added to feature list. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Oh, thats a pity... I can imagion running into problems when I get more complex queries when Daminion is ready to be used. Imagion queries about persons that can easily require such combinations. Is there any reason not to allow this - other than not having to bother with parathensis? Good question. This scheme may not be ideal. But it allows to construct complex queries and preserve the simplicity of the User Interface (Catalog at least in Tags Tree). If we'll add different AND/OR operations inside the same tag the result will differ depending from the tags order. And it's very hard to display our query in Tags Tree because our tags are sorted automatically alphabetically. Just in case could you please provide me an example of query(s) (from real life) where the different AND/OR operations might be required inside one tag? For example Tag1 AND Tag2 OR Tag3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky68 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 This scheme may not be ideal. But it allows to construct complex queries and preserve the simplicity of the User Interface (Catalog at least in Tags Tree). Thats what I thought... Belive me sooner or later you will be plastered with requests for complex queries anyway. But in the meantime this would allow more flexibility without any changes of the UI. If we'll add different AND/OR operations inside the same tag the result will differ depending from the tags order. And it's very hard to display our query in Tags Tree because our tags are sorted automatically alphabetically. I dont think its necessary to display them there - at least not in detail. It would be sufficient if the used tags would be marked the way they are now. The detailed information is in the rows above the thumbs already. Or does anyone read/evaulate the query by the tag tree anyway? Just in case could you please provide me an example of query(s) (from real life) where the different AND/OR operations might be required inside one tag? For example Tag1 AND Tag2 OR Tag3. Of course: daughter AND (grandma OR grandpa) lamburghini AND (red OR black) winter AND (evening OR night) As you see - in all examples that come to my mind the OR has priority over the AND and its hard to construct any examples that could be used in "real life" with reverse priority. I might miss one but I guess this (OR over AND) is much more likely. (...thats also why I think it should be possible to construct queries with ALT/SHIFT/CTRL-Click ;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky68 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 It should work - I've check it with the sample NEF files you sent me early. Could you please send me a file with the "problematic" color tag. Sorry, my fault! The problem was, that the labels in Daminion (for whatever reason) were reset to their english values. While ViewNX used the native german ones. After deleting the images in Daminion, renaming the tags and re-importing the images everything was fine. On a sidenote: When I try to rename a label and the new name is already taken I get an errogenous dialog: The name 'Label ' is already taken. Please choose a different name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky68 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Could you please send me a screenshot? Does the files you imported are located on a local disk? Where is the :blush: emoticon? My fault again :/ I confused "checked in" and "checked out" - Obviously "Checked in" means the files are not edited and to edit them they have to be "checked out" so things are fine the way they are. Sorry for all the confusion. Btw. I love the new "item audit history". Eventhough I normally use the native versioning inside the NEF files I could feel tempted to use Daminion for this instead. No, it's just was hidden from the tree to simplify the first UI look. You can add it from Catalog Tree options Yupp, they are there. I picked the "All" preset and expected "All" to mean "All" and not "All but Version control" ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Where is the :blush: emoticon? I need to replenish our list of smiles :) I confused "checked in" and "checked out" - Obviously "Checked in" means the files are not edited and to edit them they have to be "checked out" so things are fine the way they are. Version Control is make less sense for standalone applications and local files. So we leaved an option to directly access to the local files by Open With option (instead of the Edit With option that checks the files out before editing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsfan Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Thats what I thought... Belive me sooner or later you will be plastered with requests for complex queries anyway. But in the meantime this would allow more flexibility without any changes of the UI. I dont think its necessary to display them there - at least not in detail. It would be sufficient if the used tags would be marked the way they are now. The detailed information is in the rows above the thumbs already. Or does anyone read/evaulate the query by the tag tree anyway? Of course: daughter AND (grandma OR grandpa) lamburghini AND (red OR black) winter AND (evening OR night) As you see - in all examples that come to my mind the OR has priority over the AND and its hard to construct any examples that could be used in "real life" with reverse priority. I might miss one but I guess this (OR over AND) is much more likely. (...thats also why I think it should be possible to construct queries with ALT/SHIFT/CTRL-Click ;)) This is similar to my earlier request for complex queries with the XMP:PersonInImage tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky68 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Version Control is make less sense for standalone applications and local files. So we leave an option to directly access to the local files by Open With option (instead of the Edit With option that checks the files out before editing). I still belive it would be more simple to understand if you'd introduce an option to use "Edit with" with or without version control. At the same time you could change "Open with" to "View with". This cirtainly would cut down the confusion for people who do not follow the forum and refuse to read manuals since the difference between "edit" and "open" might not be self explainatory ;) Also this had the benefit of having two different hotkeys even for those who do not want/need version control. This is similar to my earlier request for complex queries with the XMP:PersonInImage tag. You see? There are about 4-5 active users right now and two of them already requested this feature. This is rougly 50%. You really shouldnt underestimate the demand for this. I need to replenish our list of smiles :) If you do - please also add a long nose ;^) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 I still belive it would be more simple to understand if you'd introduce an option to use "Edit with" with or without version control. At the same time you could change "Open with" to "View with". This cirtainly would cut down the confusion for people who do not follow the forum and refuse to read manuals since the difference between "edit" and "open" might not be self explainatory ;) Also this had the benefit of having two different hotkeys even for those who do not want/need version control. We changed "View with" option to "Open with" because we pass to an external application the direct link to a local file. And the program can Edit the file. "Edit without Version Control"... I guess it's too long. We've added a few extra smiles, plus I am waiting a confirmation to use the Kolobok series of smiles from his author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Of course: daughter AND (grandma OR grandpa) lamburghini AND (red OR black) winter AND (evening OR night) Daminion's architecture assumes to usage of brackets in queries, but it doesn't supported in UI. We consider to add the ability to improve the Search feature in the way you suggested. It's less likely will be implemented in Catalog Tags Tree. But it might be an option for Advanced Search in the future. The main problem here is missing of brackets in our UI. As you know: daughter AND (grandma OR grandpa) is not equals to: daughter AND grandma OR grandpa (...thats also why I think it should be possible to construct queries with ALT/SHIFT/CTRL-Click ;)) Unfortunately this will not solves the issue with sorted tags (by alphabetically) in the tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky68 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 We changed "View with" option to "Open with" because we pass to an external application the direct link to a local file. And the program can Edit the file. "Edit without Version Control"... I guess it's too long. You have a point there ;) But actually a "[ ] Use Version control for editing" in the settings to come shouldnt be too long ;) We've added a few extra smiles, plus I am waiting a confirmation to use the Kolobok series of smiles from his author. Oh, those are plenty. I just really needed a :blush: smiley for the situations a raised a false alarm again. Plus the new I :wub: Daminion is a nice to have too ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky68 Posted August 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 The main problem here is missing of brackets in our UI. Yes, thats what I presumed... But then again brackets should (in 90%) be around the OR tags - so they could be auto-inserted. Of course there always are the (better) options to (in order of desirability): - Pimp the UI to support brackets - Allow brackets in the "Advanced" Editor - Add a query editor Unfortunately this will not solves the issue with sorted tags (by alphabetically) in the tree. You are talking about the "Catalog Tags" window? I do not think its really necessary to display the real query syntax in there. After all it only shows marks for selected tags anyway. I can use it to quickly check which tags are involved in the query but not really to examine it. The query above the thumbnails on the other hand show selections in the order I picked them so this should work. And even in case there are troubles here as well: just display "Complex Query" Its better to support something but not title it properly than not to support it at all ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Oh, those are plenty. I just really needed a :blush: smiley for the situations a raised a false alarm again. Ha-ha! Don't worry about this! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 But then again brackets should (in 90%) be around the OR tags - so they could be auto-inserted. I like this way the best. It improves the query results (file management feature) and keeps the simplicity of the UI. But we have some time to more thoroughly think about it. Its better to support something but not title it properly than not to support it at all ;) It depends... Something that poorly developed from the beginning might invoke extra problems :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingsfan Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 If the UI is the limitation for complex queries, maybe a Power User option to manually construct a query is an option - of course, assuming that the database supports it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted August 14, 2011 Report Share Posted August 14, 2011 If the UI is the limitation for complex queries, maybe a Power User option to manually construct a query is an option - of course, assuming that the database supports it. Beside UI there is a middle layer that translates UI with Queries. But the major reason for delay with implementing comlex queries is UI. We'll think about a Power User mode, but as Franky suggested above, union OR tags with brackets is the feature that could be incorporate in the future. But I do not give promises at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky68 Posted August 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2011 We'll think about a Power User mode, but as Franky suggested above, union OR tags with brackets is the feature that could be incorporate in the future. I thought about it some more and while I could float you with examples for the "union OR" I am having a hard time finding (serious) examples for more complicated constructs from my perspective as a non-power hobbyist user. Maybe I am missing something and kingsfan can help out? On the other hand if I was a professional things might be different as I probably would have much more images of the same kind/topic which I need to distinguish further. So maybe the "Power User mode" for queries would be a nice addition for a Pro-Version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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