Folder for images in shared database

[franky68]

Hello,

 

I host my images on a harddisk in my desktop. The physical location for them is:

D:\Fotos\Öffentlich (D:\Images\Public)

 

this path is shared and mapped to drive "P:\" on the server and laptops. I always work with the mapped network drive to have paths identical on every computer.

 

Now I imported some images from:

P:\2011\2011.10\ (which is physically D:\Fotos\Öffentlich\2011\2011.10)

into the shared catalog.

 

Now checking the "Folder" section in the "Catalog Tags" window I get:

C:\ProgramData\Daminion Software\Daminion Server\Data\2011\10\2011.10.21\2

 

Checking that directory I found that Daminion made copies of every image I added. This is different from the standalone version which worked with the actual files that have been added.

 

1. How can I tell Daminion to work with the files that I add to the catalog instead of importing them and creating copies?

 

2. I found that if I open files (not check out&edit with) I don't get the actual files but copies of them. Those work copies are not written back so modifications are not persistent. In an earlier thread you wrote that "open with" could be used to edit in case we would not need version control.

 

3. "Check out and edit with..." asks me for a path first and then triggers one of those strange JIT errors. Ill play with this some more.

[Murat]

Hello,

 

I host my images on a harddisk in my desktop. The physical location for them is:

D:\Fotos\Öffentlich (D:\Images\Public)

 

this path is shared and mapped to drive "P:\" on the server and laptops. I always work with the mapped network drive to have paths identical on every computer.

 

Now I imported some images from:

P:\2011\2011.10\ (which is physically D:\Fotos\Öffentlich\2011\2011.10)

into the shared catalog.

 

Now checking the "Folder" section in the "Catalog Tags" window I get:

C:\ProgramData\Daminion Software\Daminion Server\Data\2011\10\2011.10.21\2

 

Checking that directory I found that Daminion made copies of every image I added. This is different from the standalone version which worked with the actual files that have been added.

 

Frank, we appreciate sharing your thoughts regarding the Daminion Server. I need say that Daminion Server and Daminion Standalone version offers two different approaches to the file access/storage:

 

1. Daminion Standalone imports the files using the direct links to the files. No duplicate files are created during the import.

 

2. Daminion Server offers a closed black box to storage the files/documents. And this black box provides a protection for a media content of a company. If the files that you imported to Daminion Server will be in public access then someone can accidentally (or specially) screw some documents.

 

If any changes will be made via Daminion Server and there was no external access (outside of the Daminion) then the media content will be under protection.

 

There is probably some conflict of interests between Home users (who probably less care about content protection from third-party changes) and Corporate users.

 

Frank, if you use the direct network paths to access the files from different computers probably the Daminion Standalone version will be better solution for you?

 

1. How can I tell Daminion to work with the files that I add to the catalog instead of importing them and creating copies?

 

At the moment this is not possible for the reasons I've mentioned above.

 

2. I found that if I open files (not check out&edit with) I don't get the actual files but copies of them. Those work copies are not written back so modifications are not persistent. In an earlier thread you wrote that "open with" could be used to edit in case we would not need version control.

 

I guess it will be correct to rename the "Open With" option to the "Open Copy With". This will be some sort of the export feature, because any changes of the downloaded file will not be reflected on the database.

 

3. "Check out and edit with..." asks me for a path first and then triggers one of those strange JIT errors. Ill play with this some more.

 

Fixed. Thanks for the message!

[franky68]

Frank, we appreciate sharing your thoughts regarding the Daminion Server.

 

There is no need to be diplomatic - its perfectly fine to say if I get on your nerves and you want me to shut up ;)

 

I need say that Daminion Server and Daminion Standalone version offers two different approaches to the file access/storage:

 

hmm.... its your product so you decide about its philosophy - but frankly I see only disadvantages as well in taking different approaches as well as holding images in the blackbox.

 

If the images should not be accessable over the network outside of Daminion its simple not to share the directory so any access needs to be made through Daminion. This doesnt require Daminion to copy each and every file plus you can have the user deceide where to host the images.

 

...and allow the user to use his prefered import/transfer application.

 

Frank, if you use the direct network paths to access the files from different computers probably the Daminion Standalone version will be better solution for you?

 

I don't need to access them through direct network paths. Its just the most simple approach right now. But the standalone might not be the best solution because its rather slow on a network (you said the server would be faster) and I am not sure how the standalone handles concurring access. User rights would be a nice goodie tho not necessary.

 

However, for myself I would prefer having full access to the images and not having an application decide where they are stored and what I can do with them. I don't see any advantage of giving up my own controll. If I want other users not to be able to access them I simply dont grant them access to the network drives.

[Murat]

There is no need to be diplomatic - its perfectly fine to say if I get on your nerves and you want me to shut up ;)

 

The more feedback the better the product

 

User rights would be a nice goodie tho not necessary.

User rights will have less sense if anyone could have a direct access to the files. And you need to configure control by both ways Daminion and via Windows/NTFS.

 

However, for myself I would prefer having full access to the images and not having an application decide where they are stored and what I can do with them. I don't see any advantage of giving up my own control.

 

The folders where the files will be stored can be configured during the Server installation or through the Server Panel.

 

I agree that the ability to import the existing files/folders will be a convenient feature. We are thinking about the best implementation of how to easily import the existing media archive without duplicating the content. Probably it's not the best approach to make a copy of the files on the same computer.

 

But anyway this is the first public Server version and we'll continuously improve it...

[franky68]

The more feedback the better the product

 

You see what I meant with 'diplomatic'? ;)

 

User rights will have less sense if anyone could have a direct access to the files. And you need to configure control by both ways Daminion and via Windows/NTFS.

 

Not everyone has direct access to the files but only me. My wife and daughter currently have only read-access or (in case of Daminion Server) wouldnt have access to the directories but only through Daminion.

 

I agree that the ability to import the existing files/folders will be a convenient feature. We are thinking about the best implementation of how to easily import the existing media archive without duplicating the content. Probably it's not the best approach to make a copy of the files on the same computer.

 

Nope, its not. This only makes a point if one is importing from a removable drive (memory card) and even then there are better importers than what Daminion Server does. You said Daminion would get a lightwight version of RoboImport too?

 

Apart from that if the image is already stored on the local computer - why copy it?

 

A regular datadrive / imagefolder by default is not shared across the network anyway. So by obscuring the path youre only 'protecting' it from the administrator, which does not really make sense. It only creates unnecessary copies all over the drives.

 

The only thinkable possible advantage would be to have a backup before any edit steps might break the image. But the initial backup should rather be done by the importer (memory card to harddisk) anyway.

 

Furthermore I am not sure if its really a good idea to have this implemented in different ways in Daminion standalone and Daminion server. Apart from the fact that it might confuse people it makes switching (e.g. upgrading) much more complicated.

 

In Daminion standalone I can define different path and have parts of my images on one drive and parts on a different drive. This is not possible with the current Server edition.

 

But anyway this is the first public Server version and we'll continuously improve it...

 

So this means there still is hope that you might change this behavior? ;)

[exterminador]

Hi,

 

I still have to test the file scheme for the server version, but from what I'm reading, that will be a show stopper for me. Most of my media is already stored on my home server (where Daminion Server will run), so making a copy of all the files I want to catalog is not an option (between 7 and 8 TB of pictures/video files).

 

Also, as a prevetion method I like to use an UNC path for pointing to the files (through shared folders), even if cataloged inside the server, so, if I have to re-structure hard drives or drive letters, I won't loose links to the files.

 

I will comment again when I test importing files but I'm thinking the option to use direct linking to the files will become an important option.

 

Thanks

[Murat]

So this means there still is hope that you might change this behavior? ;)

 

Yes. Some ways to solve the issue with duplicating the content:

1. Add an ability to import the direct links to the Server if both Client and Server are located on the same PC. So if we have a few terabytes of media files you can install the Daminion Client(Standalone version) on the server and import files with direct links

 

2. Another approach is to implement some sort of the watched folders on the server side

 

Plus keep the feature of uploading files to the server.

 

Anyway these are just some thoughts in the way of locating an optimal/best solution for the file storage.

 

PS. From 23 to 30 Oct we'll be at SofTool 2011, in Moscow and I'll have a limited access to the email and the forum, but I'll watch for the server discussions.

[franky68]

Thanks for your consideration!

 

1. Add an ability to import the direct links to the Server if both Client and Server are located on the same PC.

 

2. Another approach is to implement some sort of the watched folders on the server side

 

Why not both?

 

I think (as far as possible) both (server and standalone) should behave identically. Of course there is a difference since in a network you can have clients adding images and this situation needs to be handled. But as long as you solely view the server things are pretty much the same.

 

I assume even most corporate situations are not too different from a family environment. You have one person mainly handling / beeing responsible for the images and hosting them on a single computer. Others will mostly work as clients.

 

So I think the ability to import links (add files) and watch folders should be implemented in the server as well.

 

If someone wants to upload images from a client computer to the server probably the most consistent way would be to use the importer. You mentioned something like a "RoboImport light". Now for the Daminion server version this importer could be executed on client computers and connect to the server to upload images there.

 

This of course would mean "Add images" would not be available on clients but this had to be done with the importer instead. But I guess this would be the most consistent handling between versions without loosing any advanced features in the server version.

[Murat]

RoboImport is a solely local application and it will have an access only to local or shared folder.

 

I guess the better way will be to add an extra window that will be appeared after selecting the files to import with some options:

- Exluding Filter (by file size or by file mask)

- Tag Presets (that could be assigned to the files during import)

- Import Direct Links (instead of copying/uploading the actual files)

 

The last option will be available to select only if the Server will have an access to the imported files:

- If the Daminion Client and Daminion Server installed on the same PC

- If a Shared Folder was selected to imported