_noel_ Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 I've found another "mangling" with XMP and IPTC keywords. I'm using rather long hirachical keywords (more than 63 characters) to get my stuff organized. I've configured Daminion to write tags into XMP sidecar files and not to write to RAW files. When using long Keywords like, for example "Urlaub|120923So-120929Sa = Toskana Fotoreise|120923So = Straße von Pienza nach San Quirico d’Orcia|Fattoria 1" when using this long keywords, with NEFs everything is ok: an XMP file is written with all tags, NEF is untouched Using this long keyword with a JPG, the keyword also gets written to the IPTC keywords, which length is limited to 63 characters: the long keyword is cut off and written to the JPG IPTC keyword, the untouched long keyword is written to the JPG XMP data. Doing a "read tags from file" for this JPG again leads to two different keywords in Daminion: "Urlaub|120923So-120929Sa = Toskana Fotoreise|120923So = Straße von Pienza nach San Quirico d’Orcia|Fattoria 1" "Urlaub|120923So-120929Sa = Toskana Fotoreise|120923So = Straße" Doing the same with Photomechanic, the IPTC keyword is not cut off to 63 characters (I'm not sure, if this is as specified, I remember, that IPTC keywords should be 63 chars in length) I'm totally brainless about this mangling with old and restricted IPTC and new and "open" XMP ... With the Daminion approach, it is not possible to use longer keywords. With writing longer keywords to IPTC, the IPTC rules are broken Is it possible to "bypass" IPTC completly ? implicitly with the "write tags into XMP sidecar files" config or explicitly by another config switch ? I'm perplexed again with this IPTC / XMP stuff ... Regards Eberhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Do you use Adobe Bridge or Photoshop/Lightroom to edit your pictures along with the Daminion? If yes, it can be a reason why these truncated keywords might appear in Daminion. I've attached a short video where a long keyword was added to an image, and this keyword was written into the IPTC section without truncating, until I've edited it by Adobe Bridge (that more strictly follows to IPTC/NAA specification rules and truncated the long keyword). Video_2013-04-07_235247.wmv We've improved metadata reading algorithm in the current Daminion version, and now it ignores these truncated IPTC keywords, but seems there is a problem with umlaut symbol. We'll revisit this algorithm to the next program build. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_noel_ Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 No, I'm not using Adobe Bridge, Lightroom or other Adobe programs. The effect can be reproduced with Daminion alone, without any other program. I'll retry this with long keywords without umlauts ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 Can you record me a short video using this small utility so I can try to reproduce your steps on my computer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_noel_ Posted April 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 it seems again to be a problem with umlauts. When I test with long keywords without umlauts, there are no problems Another question: I've configured Daminion to write only XMP sidecars for RAWs, do not touch the RAWs. When I do a "Actions -> Read Tags from File" ... what file is read: the XMP or the RAW ? It seems, I get tags from the RAW when doing a "Read from File" (which is not ok) and tags from the XMP (which I want) ... but I'll analyze this tomorrow ... I'll go to bed now ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 Another question: I've configured Daminion to write only XMP sidecars for RAWs, do not touch the RAWs. When I do a "Actions -> Read Tags from File" ... what file is read: the XMP or the RAW ? It seems, I get tags from the RAW when doing a "Read from File" (which is not ok) and tags from the XMP (which I want) ... but I'll analyze this tomorrow ... I'll go to bed now ... We check XMP Metadata Modified date field in both files: original RAW image and .xmp sidecar file. And read the metadata from the most up-to-date file. BTW "Show All Metadata" command doesn't check the .xmp sidecar file but the original RAW file only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_noel_ Posted April 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 We check XMP Metadata Modified date field in both files: original RAW image and .xmp sidecar file. And read the metadata from the most up-to-date file. At first sight this seems to be a good concept ... but a hour later I do not think so: Other programs let the user decide, what to read: with Photomechanic the user has to configure which data source has to be read and written and has to decide, which data source is master and which is slave (XMP sidecar, internal XMP, internal IPTC). Following scenario with Daminion: - Daminion configured to deal with XMP sidecar only, whole tag info only in XMP sidecar file - load a NEF to Nikon CaptureNX2 (CNX2 does only deal with internal XMP/IPTC) and save it(internal XMP, which is old/false/crap gets updated) - reread to Daminion (F6) - old/false/internal XMP stuff is newer and gets loaded into Daminion :(((( I think we need more configuration posibilites here like other programs do ! IMatch, Photomechanic, IDImager do it better here ... but the user has to know, what is right and what is wrong for his situation. BTW "Show All Metadata" command doesn't check the .xmp sidecar file but the original RAW file only. Thanks for the info, this effect has lead to a little bit of confusion yesterday evening ... Regarding the "umlaut" problem with truncated IPTC keywords (see below) I'll wait for the next Daminion build (hopefully today in the evening) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murat Posted April 8, 2013 Report Share Posted April 8, 2013 ... - old/false/internal XMP stuff is newer and gets loaded into Daminion :(((( I guess the problem was because Daminion didn't write the "XMP:MetadataDate" field to the Camera RAW images itself. We've changed the metadata writing algorithm and now the version conflict between Camera RAW image and corresponding sidecar file will be resolved automatically. I think we need more configuration posibilites here like other programs do ! IMatch, Photomechanic, IDImager do it better here ... but the user has to know, what is right and what is wrong for his situation. I guess the best way to avoid this situation is rely to the "XMP:MetadataDate" field (excluding moving the entire to xmp sidecar free scheme and DNG format usage ;) I guess the only true way to resolve this issue "XMP:MetadataDate" Regarding the "umlaut" problem with truncated IPTC keywords (see below) I'll wait for the next Daminion build (hopefully today in the evening) This bug-fix will be available in the next minor Daminion update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_noel_ Posted April 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 I guess the problem was because Daminion didn't write the "XMP:MetadataDate" field to the Camera RAW images itself. We've changed the metadata writing algorithm and now the version conflict between Camera RAW image and corresponding sidecar file will be resolved automatically. I guess the best way to avoid this situation is rely to the "XMP:MetadataDate" field (excluding moving the entire to xmp sidecar free scheme and DNG format usage ;) I guess the only true way to resolve this issue "XMP:MetadataDate" This bug-fix will be available in the next minor Daminion update. Sorry, I'm under very heavy work load the next days (hopefully not weeks), I'l test the problem the next days ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_noel_ Posted April 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 The issue is fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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