Advanced Queries

[pgrondin]

Using 0.8.5, I tried to identify all my photos of crosses that were not in Churches.

 

Using the Catalog Tags panel, I was able to construct the query. (Churches AND Art/Crosses) displayed above the thumbnails.

 

When I try to create the same query in Advanced Search, the search fails. The results depend on the search order:

 

"Art/Crosses" and "churches" - Produces "No items match ..."

"Churches" and "Art/crosses" - Produces all Crosses whether they are in churches or not.

 

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Following up on discussions in several other threads: I am completely in agreement with any request for completely flexible advanced queries. This should include the ability to combine tag groups in any way. If all photos are completely consistently tagged, it may be possible to argue that some search combinations are not necessary, but this is the real world. Tags get applied inconsistently, and after a period of time photos get "Lost" because memory fades, and the original tagging no longer complies with how tags are currently used.

 

As an example, as tags are at the moment, from my recent trip, I have photos of war memorials with the following tagging characteristics:

 

Directory "Ortona", Tagged under "Places". All photos are War Memorial photos because that is what the "Place" is, but there is no tag under keywords.

 

Directory "Monte Cassino". Groups of photos are tagged under Places, as "Polish Memorial", or "Commonwealth Memorial". Again there are no "War Memorial" tags under Keywords. There are other photos in the directory with other tags.

 

Throughout the remainder of the collection there are individual photos tagged under Keywords as "Memorial".

 

Inconsistent, yes, but not unusual in most photos collections, I am sure.

 

I may have a war memorial image in mind which I would like to retrieve, but I don't remember where it was taken.

 

To retireve all my war memorial photos I would have to be able to construct a query of the form:

 

(Places = Ortona OR "Polish Memorial" OR Commonwealth Memorial") OR Keyword = Memorials.

 

In the future, I may not remember that I created a "Polish Memorial" place and will only remember that I took photos at "Monte Cassino". In that case I will also retrieve a bunch of photos that are not desired. The more inclusive search however means that the photo is not "Lost".

 

The main purpose of Daminion for me is to allow retrieval of a manageable set of photos from a large, imperfectly tagged, collection. I need to be able to make the search inclusive, to ensure the images I want are included, and I need to be able to exclude images that are not relevant, to keep the selection manageable. A flexible, complex search does both.

[Alexius]

Actually I can not reproduce the issue with Advanced Search. Could please send catalog to [email protected]?

 

As for the flexible searches I can just repeat Murat's words. Daminion has technical ability to make more advanced searches but we need to made very simple GUI to represents these searches. This GUI should not cause difficulties with flexible searches even for newbies. We have some prototypes but not too perfect.

[pgrondin]

Catalog is on its way.

 

Speaking of newbies, or old-time, occasional users for that matter:

 

We will have the most trouble with searches that use things like the little AND/OR toggle boxes, and ALT, Shift keys. (By the way Shift appears to do nothing on my system (0.8.5). Maybe I misunderstood some of the other postings.)

 

The type of window you are using for Advanced Search is much better for newbie/occasional users since all the options, and logic are right inside one area/window. We may need to think a bunch about which choice is correct, but that beats having to remember what Alt, and Shift do, and finding the AND/OR toggle, and trying to figure out how to get our desired search done within the limitations of a "Simple" interface.

[Alexius]

Catalog is on its way.

 

 

I replied to your e-mail.

 

 

Speaking of newbies, or old-time, occasional users for that matter:

 

We will have the most trouble with searches that use things like the little AND/OR toggle boxes, and ALT, Shift keys. (By the way Shift appears to do nothing on my system (0.8.5). Maybe I misunderstood some of the other postings.)

 

There is no function for Shift key only four combinations: Click, Alt+Click, Ctrl+Click, Alt + Ctrl + Click.

 

Click - Clearing current query and create new with include current clicked tag value.

Alt + Click - Clearing current query and create new with exclude current clicked tag value.

Ctrl + Click Appending include current clicked tag value to current query.

Alt + Ctrl + Click Appending exlcude current clicked tag value to current query.

 

Tags values from different tags (Keywords, Categories, Rating etc.) are united using OR AND opertator. Tags values through one Tag are united using user choice.

 

 

The type of window you are using for Advanced Search is much better for newbie/occasional users since all the options, and logic are right inside one area/window. We may need to think a bunch about which choice is correct, but that beats having to remember what Alt, and Shift do, and finding the AND/OR toggle, and trying to figure out how to get our desired search done within the limitations of a "Simple" interface.

 

Advanced Search looks more simple because all tags values from one tag grouped and have either the "OR" operator or "AND" operator. The search results do not depend on the order of conditions. A completely different situation when it is possible unites the conditions from one tag with "AND" and "OR" operator. This is the main problem.

[pgrondin]

Tags values from different tags (Keywords, Categories, Rating etc.) are united using OR opertator.

 

I do not understand.

 

When I do a search:

Keyword = Gardens ... Place = Torino the result I get is Gardens in Torino. It seems to me that the the logic is clearly:

Keyword = Gardens AND Place = Torino

The only Photos retrieved by the query are Gardens in Torino.

 

EDIT:

Is it possible that you are thinking of AND in the sense that someone may want to display (these photos) AND (those photos) ie :

 

Display : Gardens AND Parks

 

The usual Logical query for this is : Keywords = Gardens OR Keywords = Parks

 

Someone thinking in English rather than Logic may say:

Select photos of Gardens AND Photos of Parks.

 

Still not sure what you meant above.

[Alexius]

I do not understand.

 

When I do a search:

Keyword = Gardens ... Place = Torino the result I get is Gardens in Torino. It seems to me that the the logic is clearly:

Keyword = Gardens AND Place = Torino

The only Photos retrieved by the query are Gardens in Torino.

 

I am sorry, its my fault. Operator between different tags (Keywords, Place) is "AND" of course.

 

 

EDIT:

Is it possible that you are thinking of AND in the sense that someone may want to display (these photos) AND (those photos) ie :

 

Display : Gardens AND Parks

 

The usual Logical query for this is : Keywords = Gardens OR Keywords = Parks

 

Someone thinking in English rather than Logic may say:

Select photos of Gardens AND Photos of Parks.

 

Still not sure what you meant above.

 

Here is scheme describing how Daminion's queries works.